Who is choosing to study and work in Nepal?

I’ve said it to you listeners more than once: it seems that almost every young person I've met in Nepal in the last couple years was planning to go overseas, or knows someone who's doing so. 

Now I have proof, kind of. Yesterday I spoke to a researcher whose team surveyed a high school graduating class. 40% of the students said they want to go study abroad after graduation; another 40% said they hope to go work overseas. That's 80% — a huge number, but I'm not surprised. 

So when I meet someone in their 20s who graduated high school in Nepal, then did a bachelor’s degree, and then a master’s degree, and is now working in this country, I get curious. 

Today’s guest, Paribesh Bidari, tells me that the youngest people he’s working with in his various offices are in their 40s. And while he’s juggling many gigs to advance his career, he’s also making it a point to motivate his juniors to stay in Nepal.

Chapters

• 3:34 Juggling numerous jobs
• 6:07 'Teachers push you to go abroad'
• 10:31 My family hesitated, but supported my decision
• 17:54 No young people left in my hometown

Transcript

Paribesh: 0:00

Teachers often consciously, unconsciously, reinforce a belief that Nepal lacks opportunities. And the narrative is so dominant that staying in Nepal is seen almost as a failure.

Marty: 0:27

Hi everyone. I've said it to you listeners more than once: it seems that almost every young person I've met here in Nepal in the last couple of years was planning to go overseas, or at least knew someone who was going or had already gone overseas. Well, now I have proof, kind of. Last night I was speaking to a researcher and he told me that his group did a survey of students in a graduating class. 40% of them were planning to go abroad to study once they finished, and another 40% were planning to leave the country to work overseas after they graduated. So there you have it 80%, leaving just 20% behind. That's a huge number. But I have to say, I'm not surprised. So when I meet someone in their twenties who graduated high school in Nepal, then did a bachelor's degree, and then a master's degree, and is now working in this country, I get curious. Welcome to Nepal Now, the show that speaks to some of the hundreds of thousands of people leaving this small country surrounded by global giants, India and China, every year. Sometimes also we're able to catch up with someone returning after a stint overseas or, like today, someone who has no plans to go anywhere. Occasionally we'll call in an expert to help explain all of this coming and going actually, going and coming is more accurate. Today's guest, Paribesh Bidari, tells me that the youngest people he's working with in his various offices are in their forties, and while he's juggling many gigs to advance his career, he says he's also making it a point to motivate his juniors to stay in Nepal. Please listen now to my chat with Paribesh Bidari. Paribesh Bidari Welcome to Nepal Now podcast.

Paribesh: 2:36

Thank you so much, Marty.

Marty: 2:39

We are here today to talk about you being here, being one of it almost seems like a minority of young people who decided to stay in Nepal instead of going overseas. So we're definitely here to talk about how you came to that decision but, before we get that far, I just want you to tell me about your life to date. You're a very young guy so it won't take too long where you were born and grew up, went to school, et cetera.

Paribesh: 3:06

I was born in Kathmandu and I went to Modern Indian School that is located in Chhobar. And I spent around eight years over there and then I moved to the British College from where I did my A Levels, bachelor's degree and a master's degree.

Marty: 3:23

Okay, great. That's what I said it would be short, right?

Paribesh: 3:25

Yeah,

Marty: 3:27

And so now tell me what you're doing now, because you did tell me before and there's a few things happening at the same time I think.

Paribesh: 3:33

So currently, I'm based in a global enviro-tech initiative. That's a US based organization. Uh, I'm working there, in remote, as a research consultant as well as I'm working in Nepal Health Research Council as a part-time, digital health, research consultant, and I'm doing all the digitalization of the research over there. Also, I have been involved in one of the NGOs as a core team member and a research associate that's the Planetary Health Resource Centre. It's a burning issue of climate change. Yeah. That's all.

Marty: 4:05

That's a lot. You said That's all but

Paribesh: 4:07

Yes

Marty: 4:08

For many people one thing is enough and you're doing, that's, I counted three there, so it must keep you busy.

Paribesh: 4:14

Yes. I only barely get four to five hours sleep. That's, that's the life

Marty: 4:19

That wouldn't work for me. Yeah. Not enough. You finished your bachelor's and then did you work for a while before you started your master's or you went immediately?

Paribesh: 4:28

After doing my high school, I started doing my internship and they were really kind enough to offer me a lunch, but they didn't offer me money, you know, but I always wanted to learn from them. So I worked as an intern at, uh, group for technical assistance, NGO, where I served as their data collection intern and report writing. There was one research going along, so I was a part of the enumerator team. They were happy to keep me as a enumerator and I got a lot of exposure. And later on they offered me a job after doing a one year internship. I was working with them when I was in my bachelor's also, because the college timings were till 11, so from 11 I was freed, you know, so it was, it was not considered a full-time job because the office started at nine and Sunday was off. However, I worked with them from 11 to five.

Marty: 5:28

You finished your schooling, your bachelor's, and at any point along the way, were you considering going overseas to continue your studies? I'll just give you a bit of background. My daughter finished her A levels one year ago now, and I'm guessing that of all the kids in her class and there must be 50 or more, maybe closer to a hundred I'm guessing that 80 to 90% plan to go overseas and many have already left. Was it different in your group or,

Paribesh: 6:01

No, no. It was quite similar, you know while I was joining the A Levels. For example, those teachers are really forcing you: oh, if you are staying in Nepal, you're doing nothing'. And, teachers often consciously, unconsciously, reinforce a belief that Nepal lacks opportunities. And the narrative is so dominant that staying in Nepal is seen almost as a failure, a backup plan, maybe, if you are not good enough with studies. There were a lot of sessions that I attended at that time, lot of university sessions, lots of thing going around, motivation session. I visited two, three consultancies to go out. I did give my SAT exams I got a really good score. However, there was a one point that I decided not to go. I went to a Modern Indian School. There was also a one kind of motivation after 10: you need to go to India. That was the motivation from every side. But, while doing my internship and all, I realized a lot of graduates we came from there and I was the (only) one who was studying in Nepal till grade 12. I was no different than them. Maybe the exposure that I was in, the academic degree would alone not hold everything. You know, you need a mixture of, uh, the exposure, the parental support, and I think you need to be quite smart and do a lot of things.

Marty: 7:34

So it was more about getting this broad experience, including academic, but not only academic. Yes, yes, yes. Like your work experience? Interacting with people. Yes. And your friends, so I'm sure many of your friends have gone, so when you see them, they must come back once in a while or some of them have come back, when you talk to them anyway when you compare where you're at now and how your life has changed and advancing, how do they seem to be in comparison with that?

Paribesh: 8:06

Very interesting. Uh, last week I had a, a conversation with one of my friend who is in the US. He desperately wants to come back. He really wants to come back. He's not enjoying the life over there. He said, if you have any work for me, I'm really willing to come back. When he reflects back what he have achieved and what I have done I'm staying here in Nepal, earning the money, almost (as much as) they're earning, you know, because I don't need to pay the rent I have my own house over here. The food is not expensive, so I don't need to much focus on that one. So if you calculate the savings, it's almost same. So, I think how they perceive it is, 'you have also done something that we, we think that we had achieved over here, but in a much better way because you have the leverage to stay with your parents, support them'. And it's a culture of Nepal, you know, staying with your parents, it's a blessing, taking care of them when they grow old it's our culture. And they are respecting that I'm here doing something, the flexible lifestyle that I have, they're really, uh, looking forward in that way.

Marty: 9:18

Right. Okay. So you have the best of both worlds, in a way. You have the work experience, you did get your degree, your degrees, and you managed to stay home. The lifestyle is all familiar to you. That sounds very positive. positive. What are you looking forward, let's say in five years from now, are you still planning to be in Nepal?

Paribesh: 9:38

Yes. yes. Uh, I, I will definitely plan to be in Nepal, but if I get a international job, a very good reputed organization if they or the university, you know, for the PhD I might consider or for a very good job, international job, that I'm working remote. If they want me full time, for some years I might go over there, but I don't have plans to settle over any country till now.

Marty: 10:05

Okay, so you really want to stay here. You mentioned your parents a couple of times. Obviously they're are a huge influence on your life, for everyone, but for this particular decision to stay in Nepal, did you guys talk about it a lot? Did they try to keep you here or were they very open about it or?

Paribesh: 10:23

They're quite flexible, but being the only one son, you know, only one child, there is some of hesitation, but also, 'okay, we are educated people. If you want, you can go'. But there was kind of a hesitation, however they are open about it and we discussed a lot. Even, my, uh, father and mother were on a US trip and they visited the universities that I applied. They even, uh, check the, bookings, you know, how expensive is the hostel over there? How is the environment over there? They spent one week exploring with the university that I applied, but however I didn't go.

Marty: 11:03

it wasn't because they saw something negative when they visited that you didn't go?

Paribesh: 11:08

No, no. It was entirely my decision.

Marty: 11:11

Yeah. It does seem very much like you've made up your mind about where you want to be, but you're also seems to me the way you talked about your work experience and the way we've got to know each other; second time we've met (Yeah) still brief but you seem to be very much a people person and I could see you also, I think, wanting to have an experience somewhere else, meet other people, experience different cultures. Do you feel that as well?

Paribesh: 11:39

Yes. I am really like looking forward for meeting a lot of people. Now I'm working with many universities and different kind of donors that my work demands, you know, I am kind of a public relations guy, I love to keep with my stakeholders. That's my expertise also to network with them, form a project together. I think that is the, strength that I must utilize, because sometimes the academic degree doesn't teach you that, you know. They just teach you the academic information, the mathematics and all. But in the life, it's quite different. It's about meeting people. We have heard about elevator pitch, we have practiced a lot about the elevator pitch.

Marty: 12:24

You mentioned your one friend in the US who contacted you and said, find a way for me to come back here. And you said also, I think, many of your friends who you've known and gone to school with have left the country. How does it feel seeing that? Do you ever feel lonely? Do you miss them or are you so engaged in your day-to-day activities that you're just moving ahead?

Paribesh: 12:48

We definitely miss them because the childhood that we spent with them, that cannot be recreated with someone else that I meet. The situation is like this right now: there is no young people. I don't work with young people nowadays. If you see, the closest age that I'm working is 40, 45 years people, you know? I have now tried to form a network with those kind of peoples. However, as a part of my empowerment, I have few projects running where I'm really want to keep young individuals. So I'm interacting, I'm going to a few schools. The, bachelor's degree students, I'm forming a network to keep them occupied in some projects, and they are doing really well. I have three, four friends, my very juniors, who I work with and who were planning to leave the country, but I have at least shown them, given them some work, some incentives, so that they feel secure staying in Nepal, because that's the motivation you need to give. 'There's something that you can do' must be said to the young individuals now, people who are much more younger than me. Yesterday I was working with someone who is just 19 and he wanted to work with me, and I've given him some designing works. And I'm paying him. I think that is the secure spot for him. At the age of 19, if he can say that, 'okay, I'm earning, I'll pay the bill today', you know, with the friends. If he can fuel his own motorbike with petrol, that's a huge achievement.

Marty: 14:26

That's surprising in a way because you, yourself, you're under 30. Yeah. Right. Are you under 25?

Paribesh: 14:32

27. Yeah.

Marty: 14:33

So you're still very young, but you're, talking so responsibly. You're talking like someone who's 10 years older that you also want to help these younger people and support them and provide a sort of mentoring to them. Did you always have that side to yourself because you could just focus on your own works and keep yourself very busy and accomplish things. Have you always also wanted to pull other people up, or?

Paribesh: 14:57

Yes, that is my nature. Have you heard about Model United Nations?

Marty: 15:01

Of course. Yeah.

Paribesh: 15:02

Yeah. We are the, one of the people who started that in the British College. We were the first or the second batch of the college. No alumni, no traditions, and barely any infrastructure, you know. It was kind of a place where students could either wait for things to be built or build them themselves. So we, three of us were there, a group who decided that we need to do a model United Nations. At the age of 17, we had that spirit. We went to our coordinator: 'we want to do this project, we want support, and we want financial aid from you'. He said, 'okay, we'll support you with a small portion of budget, but the rest you need to figure it out'. And it was kind of a interesting thing, you know, at the age of 17 having that courage to handle that much of students crowd from different A-level schools representing at the same time: collecting the fees, managing all the food expenses, managing the hall expenses, and the other part was getting the sponsorship. Today there is AI. AI can write the sponsorship proposals, but I know how we wrote it. We don't have a background of a fundraising. My father and mother also didn't have that background. I just Googled everything and wrote a sponsorship proposal. My work was to go around Putali Sadak till Dillibazar and (at) all the consultants over there I used to drop one letter. That's the sponsorship proposal. I think that was the nature that I was inherited, from my schooling and my high school. So I think that was the reason that I am like this today, helping others.

Marty: 16:44

Definitely very motivated. So let's step back a little bit and we've kind of touched on it, but thinking of Nepal as a whole, right, the country as a whole. You've said it, most people have already heard it from me, how many people are leaving this country every day? There's thousands, right?

Paribesh: 17:05

Yeah.

Marty: 17:05

And many of them are going overseas to work, and they'll be back in two or three or four years. But many are also, like your friends, they're going overseas to study and then maybe they get PR or some sort of visa and they stay in the country. And then after that, we don't know maybe they'll come back, but there's a good chance they get settled in that new country. You do hear many times now: 'all the young people are going, what are we going to do? How do we develop the country'? How do you feel about this situation? Are you worried that all of the young, energetic people are going to leave and there's not going to be enough to do the work that needs to be done?

Paribesh: 17:45

Yes, I totally agree with it, you know. The situation is quite depressing. So I'll just tell you a very, simple example, uh, of my hometown. Every year when we go to the hometown, there used to be young people over there. Two, three years back, my, uh, grandfather and my elder uncle died, due to the cancer. The situation is like this: the villages are filled with old people. There's no capacity to carry the bodies to our last ceremonial sites. People from Kathmandu have to go. We went from our end to there to support that. That is the situation. We have seen big, big houses now through remittances, but the people living over there are the old people who cannot just climb one floor up and they have a four-storey building built up over there. And I don't know about the sustainability, how the income generation is the investment done over there, how they are thinking building a four-storey house where there is no access. In the rural area. That is a problem. The resource mobilization is also the problem. And the younger generations are not there, to consume. Yesterday I was seeing one news, all the shops in Thamel area, New Road area, are vacating. Why? Migration. So I think now what we should do from our end, I'm doing it from my individual end to retain these people, give them a good exposure over here, give them a good opportunity so that they don't leave the country. And having worked with, uh, mental health organization, I have seen how the migration and mental health, the untold side. I have many students who migrated abroad, not out of passion or clarity but due to pressure: from schools, from parents, from peer groups, you know. Students who could have thrived in Nepal if provided the right opportunities were pushed into pathways that they weren't mentally prepared, or emotionally also, they were not prepared. they desperately want to come back, and many have mental health problem, which is never covered in the mainstream media. We are only talking about the mental health of the labour population that goes, you know, the working population, but never the student population Many are facing the mental health challenges: stress, burnout, isolation, because it's not like Nepal. If today now I have the courage that if I don't want to work after five, I can. But you cannot sustain yourself in the other countries like this. There should be a kind of a financial strain on you. I think they'll be struggling to handle the expenses.

Marty: 20:32

Yeah. There's a lot of pressure Yes. For the students I've met. Do you think if many more people stayed behind, would they find things to do or is it because you are unique very self-motivated, et cetera?

Paribesh: 20:46

I don't say like I am a very extraordinary person. It's about that the hard work that we do, and sometimes it's the luck how you get the things. However we push on the hard work, we have seen people not achieving that's the truth. But I think the main thing how our high school, how our education should reform is: it should be a practical education, you know. Many of my friends didn't work while I was working (during) the bachelor's degree and the master's degree, and after master's degree when they directly went for a job, some people who have already started working from bachelor's level would have reached some level at that point. I think that is a practice in international countries, but it is yet to be practiced in Nepal. We are not leveraging them to seek the opportunities and work in the studying hours.

Marty: 21:39

Right. So when they finish, then they have both practical and academic knowledge. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.

Paribesh: 21:45

Another thing that I wanted to talk about is the financial philosophy. It's about the saving with intention and the diversification of the income for the security. I deeply follow that personal rule, you know. I at least have, uh a yearly, milestone set: this is the budget that I wanted to save this year. And because I'm in my mid twenties, or maybe call it, uh, late twenties approaching to the thirties, I'm on the horizon (of) starting a new family, investing in my own projects maybe, or perhaps pursuing a further education. So I think I need to be financially stable in that. So I encourage youth to have a diversified income source.

Marty: 22:36

That's very good advice. I wish I was as smart as you when I was 27 and I had planned that way because I didn't, and it would've been a good idea, for sure.

Paribesh: 22:45

Another thing I just wanted to add, I think the current migration trends in youth uh, is because they are not valued by the organization. Managers are seeing them as a threat or a competition. These young guys who knows how to use AI, knows how to use designing, knows how to do data analysis, will eat my role', you know. They are so discouraging I have seen it. I don't want to share in which organization, but we have been the victim of that in my career. What I believe is leadership isn't about guarding your position. It's about amplifying your impact through others. The quote I wanted to say is, great managers don't see youth as a competition, they should see it as a continuation.

Marty: 23:31

Very good. Paribesh, thank you very much for coming and talking to me today. Really nice to spend a bit more time with you.

Paribesh: 23:37

Thank you so much Marty. It was wonderful to be here.

Marty: 23:40

Okay. Bye-bye.

Paribesh: 23:41

Bye-bye. Thank you.

Marty: 23:43

Thanks again to Parsh bid for speaking with me today. If you have any questions or comments, I'd love to hear them. Email me at nepalnowpod(at)gmail.com. Thank you very much for listening. Do you know that you can contribute to this show by becoming a supporter? It costs as little as $3 a month. That's about the same as a cup of coffee in the west, maybe two here in Kathmandu. If you don't have a credit card to sign up, contact me and we'll figure out a way to make it happen. Thank you also to PEI, Policy Entrepreneurs Inc for letting us record in their studio in Bakhundole. I'll talk to you next time.