Should students going abroad use education consultancies?

Just like coffee shops, it seems that education consultancies are multiplying faster than rabbits in Kathmandu. 

I’ve always wondered why prospective students spend tens or even hundreds of thousands of rupees to have someone fill out their overseas college and university applications for them. After all, if they've made it to Grade 12 or beyond, surely they must be able to do it themselves. 

So I was very happy to have nursing expert Radha Adhikari on the show to explain some of the reasons why it's not quite as simple as I thought. I think you'll agree that her information and insights are fascinating.

Also, I am happy, and proud, to announce that Nepal Now is 100 episodes old! 

Thank you to everyone who’s listened since 2020. That’s when I started the show as a way to broaden the conversation about ‘development’ and Nepal, and to share more of the kinds of interviews that I was already doing, instead of having them reduced to just a couple of paragraphs in an article.

For those of you still listening, I have just one request: Feedback please! I know you’re out there, but I really want to know what you’re thinking. Love the show – fantastic; hate it – not so good, but tell me anyway. Even better if you have suggestions. 

It’s extremely easy to get in touch. Send a text by clicking on the link at the top of the notes to this episode, or message us on social media. We’re @nepalnowpod.

Questions or comments: email me at nepalnowpod(at)gmail.com. 

Chapters

• 5:46 It's more complicated than Marty thought
• 10:37 Services they provide beyond applications
• 17:12 Government showing greater interest
• 22:34 Advice for students considering a consultancy

Transcript

Radha: 0:00

My main understanding is there's so much information overload and they can't really navigate those complex bureaucratic visa process. If it was easier and simple for them to get British or American visa, consultancies probably wouldn't have that much work.

Marty: 0:31

Hi everyone. Just like coffee shops, it seems that education consultancies are multiplying faster than rabbits in Kathmandu. But before we get to today's topic, I am happy, and proud, to announce that Nepal Now is 100 episodes old. Thank you to everyone who's listened since 2020. That's when I started the show as a way to broaden the conversation about development and Nepal. I also wanted to share some of the longer interviews I'd been doing. Often as a journalist, you talk to someone for half an hour, 45 minutes, and all of that conversation is transformed into, at most, a couple paragraphs in a story. And so I really wanted to find a way to share more of the things that I was talking about with these interviewees. For those of you still engaged in Nepal Now, I have just one request: feedback please! I know you're out there, but I really want to know what you're thinking. If you love the show, fantastic. If you hate it, not so good, but tell me anyway. And it's even better if you have suggestions. It's extremely easy to get in touch with Nepal Now. You can send a text by clicking on the link at the top of the notes to this or any episode or message us on social media. We're@nepalnowpod. Back to today's topic. I've always wondered why prospective students go to the ever-growing number of education consultancies in Kathmandu. They spend, in some cases, a lot of money to get other people to fill out their application forms for university. At least that's how I've been seeing it. And so I'm very happy that in this episode I had a chance to speak to nursing expert Radha Adhikari, who explained some of the reasons why nursing students, and others, use these consultancies to actually apply for universities and colleges. I think her information and insights are fascinating and that you will too. So without further ado, my chat with Radha Adhikari. Radha Adhikari, welcome to Nepal Now podcast!

Radha: 3:12

Thank you. Pleased to be here.

Marty: 3:15

We are here today to talk about educational consultancies in general. But before we get to that point, like I do with everyone, I'd like for you to tell me a little bit about your background: where you were born, went to school maybe something about your career to date, that kind of thing.

Radha: 3:34

I was, born in Palpa, and I went to school in various part of country in Nepal. moved around a bit and I did my nurse training in Kathmandu about 40 years ago. And, there were very few nurses around that time. There were no education consultancies or any migration ideas in those days. After that I worked in Tansen Mission Hospital as a nurse and then went to Biratnagar Nursing Campus. I was a lecturer there. And I got married in mid nineties and moved to London. Worked there as a nurse as well in London and Cambridge and in Oxford in various places. And then moved to Scotland in early 2000, in 2004. And since then I've been working there as a clinical practitioner and also as a researcher and also an academic. I teach nursing students in Scotland.

Marty: 4:31

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. It's always nice to have someone on who has a interesting migration story So let's get right into it. I've spent a lot of time in an area of Kathmandu called Dillibazar. And Dillibazar is maybe the heart, or one of the hearts, of educational consultancies Kathmandu. And every time I'm there, I notice how the offices are moving further and further now, not so much on Putali Sadak, the main road, but on the Dillibazar Road also they're moving further and further up the hill. I noticed again the other day, they're just taking over. And I'll say it very clearly at the beginning. My bias is, I don't know why people are using educational consultancies all the time. It seems to me that the average educated person who's planning to go abroad, for university or college can go online and find all this information themselves and save their money for when they actually get to where they're going. So tell me, am I partly right about that or am I just not seeing the whole picture?

Radha: 5:43

You're partly right about it, but again, as you said, you are not seeing the whole picture. There's a big picture there. My exposure to education consultancies started when I was doing my, research, field work, on nurse migration. I looked at, Nepali nurses' migration to the UK as part of my PhD. And then I was talking to these migrant nurses in the UK, Nepali nurses who went to work there, and lots of them told me about, these education consultancies. Until then, I didn't really know about them. Then I came back to Nepal and I was looking around, nursing education system and process and policies and new developments. That time. I visited education consultancies as well because they're very major part of migration. And, visited Dillibazar, Putali Sadak so many consultancies. You said exactly what I saw there, then, in 2006-7, and they are growing now, of course. Why nurses or any higher education students don't try themself and why do they pay to education consultancies is your question, yeah?

Marty: 6:56

Exactly.

Radha: 6:57

The bigger picture is there is information overload. Online you can find so much information about universities and course programmes and this and that. And around that time, for example, there were colleges in the UK called hazaria colleges, and then those hazaria colleges were taking money from international students. Hazar means 1000, you know that 1000 pounds. And from international students but they didn't really have to do any course. They were getting(a) visa for one year or two years, 18 months, The students would enter to UK and then do their own thing. The college were just there to, make falsified documents There was no certificate or anything, no monitoring from British Home Office, and then it got exposed. And British Home Office office closed all these hazaria colleges. They were not universities, but colleges were closed. They had very good link with international education consultancies in Kathmandu, not just in Kathmandu, but in other part of world as well. In India, in Bangladesh, you can find them everywhere. because they kind of make very strong link and make easier for nurses and higher education students to go there, find places. But since 2000 6, 7, 8, and 10, they have changed a lot. There's lots of self-regulation as well because the exposure and because of closure of some of their partners in the UK for example. And also there was a story when I was doing my research. There was one consultancy based in, near Naya Baneshwor chowk, that consultancy recruited and sent about 300 Nepali nurses to Australia, with false hope, false document And they went to Australia and they didn't get what they were expecting to get. And they were stranded and they kind of had some money, but they ran out of that money and then they reported parents and there was a big trouble there in Naya Baneshwor. I had visited that consultancy and when I came back next year to visit again, it didn't exist. It was padlocked. It was, set up by somebody from South India and he ran away overnight. Because of that, now they have more kind of self-regulation and government is actively looking into that as well. There's some progress, but why students still go there? I think that my main understanding is there's so much information overload and, they can't really navigate those complex bureaucratic visa process. If it was easier and simple for them to get British or American visa, consultancies probably wouldn't have that much work.

Marty: 9:48

Yeah, that's something I didn't think about. Ah, I was thinking of them only as an academic facilitator, but there's the whole other visa side to it, which is, as we know, at least as big a task getting a visa as it is getting admission to some overseas college or university. Yeah.

Radha: 10:07

These consultancies have link of course, with the universities and they know how to navigate, how to falsify document, for example. And, these, naive or, or these young students wouldn't do that wouldn't be able to get those documents. And also they're so experienced now, they've become expert of course, in counseling. They also give visa interview training they used to now they don't have visa interview. In the past, students wanting to go to the UK would go for visa interview, and they will get that training. English language training. multiple services Some of very, very specialist ones will, provide cultural translation as well. I met one recently that serves students to go to Japan, not just Japanese language, but Japanese culture and how to speak to people and how to behave in public places in Japan, how to wear clothes and what kind of food available there, and how to cook or how to eat and wear kimono, for example. Many have been closed, many still running; they change names. If they close, they will have new names and move to different part of the country or close here and go to India. And also they are needed for Western higher education institutes as well. Because universities in Britain and also in Australia and America, the private universities, they need international student because they bring so much money. I was talking to somebody, who went to Australia to study. He said Australia's second GDP is international student and they bring so much money and, British universities need international students as well. If they don't come then university not getting enough grant, government grant to run. Many use these consultancies, to recruit students as well. And they pay consultancies a commission, apparently. It's so many people in different layers are playing in slightly dodgy ground.

Marty: 12:17

Yeah. Same thing in Canada. It's become a huge part not private institutions, public, like our public universities as well. I know it's really hard to generalize talking about this, but for an average student going overseas for a four year degree, how much would they pay a consultancy to do the average amount of work? So, find them an institution and if necessary, help them fill out their visa application?

Radha: 12:48

In the past for nurses, when I was doing my research, decade ago, they were charging like 4,000, 5,000. I met one nurse who paid 7,000 pounds.

Marty: 12:59

Pounds!

Radha: 12:59

Pounds.

Marty: 13:00

Wow!

Radha: 13:01

That's lots of money for them to do all the paperwork and get a visa application and helping them to go to the UK. I think that she had to pay her own, airfare and accommodation in the UK. But it depends. Some have paid 1000 pounds only. If they have strong social network and support network in the UK or in Australia, they probably don't have to pay so much. If they're very new and don't have any support mechanism they end up paying more to consultants for that. Other students, higher education students, they said they don't really pay consultancy fees, a maybe very small amount of consultancy fee, but the university in Australia, for example will give the commission to the consultant, 20% of the total tuition fee. That's quite a good sum of money. This is sounding more and more like labour migration. The way it works with the employers in the host country and then the broker, the middleman, and then the migrant themselves. Yeah. That's why I said there are various pathways and the pathways are not very clear. And nurses I interviewed, I meet in the UK, I met so many have taken higher education route, but, to be absolutely honest, it is not like they they want to do higher education. They want to work of course, but there is no way to enter UK's labour market they don't get visa. The one way to get into UK is to become a student.

Marty: 14:34

But just in the last couple of years. the UK government and Nepal announced a very specific programme to recruit nurses. Did that go ahead or?

Radha: 14:46

It has. It has. It has, yeah. I think 41 nurses have gone to the UK now. They were going to recruit 100 as a pilot project and then decide. But yeah, it has gone ahead. We have 100 fully qualified nurses leaving(the) country every month, as a student. The high profile government to government negotiation is very, very small. It has very small capacity. And you mentioned also how the government is playing a bit of an oversight role. Is it improving gradually or is it It comes once in a while and then it goes, and then... It's, it is a very hard question. General awareness has increased definitely among nurses and also general public because so many nurses went abroad, they didn't get, the job they wanted. And some have been very, very successful. No doubt about that. Out of like how many thousand nurses Nepal has lost for international labour market, probably a couple of hundred have been very successful.

Marty: 15:51

I mentioned to you before we started this that I had interviewed a nurse, a few months ago now, and she was telling me how much money she earned when she started as a nurse. And it was a, yeah, it was a pittance. It was 10,000 or 12,000 or something like that per month. and then she sounds like she got lucky and found a couple of good jobs, but now she's also gone overseas. So obviously money is one of the draws, I'm sure, for many of the nurses who go overseas, but I understand the dilemma the government might be in. They know they can't supply all the jobs here, people want to go. But if they accept that people are going and they're using education consultancies is the government at least saying that it has an inspection regime or making these organizations, fill out forms annually or trying to regulate it somehow?

Radha: 16:47

I'm not aware of that. They didn't have anything when I did my research. Absolutely nothing. Anybody could be international education consultant, But, after so much rumour and scandal abroad they started regulating themself. They have various groups like self-regulatory groups and government is definitely, paying some attention to that. There's something happening definitely. Now, for example, when students want to go abroad, they have to get, no objection certificate from the government. That is new thing it didn't happen 10, 15 years ago. And now they must get that before they go to foreign countries for studying. That is one way to monitor and see where they go.

Marty: 17:38

So I thought that letter was mainly to say that this person doesn't have a criminal record and they have money that they say they have. But do you think it, it also includes, details about their plans as well?

Radha: 17:52

I have not checked the details, but, definitely that gives some records: how many students are going and where they're going, at least something, some indication of like where they go, and how many of them, and what subject. I was trying to review some popular international education consultancies website, like how they promote their services recently. I thought I'd take 10, just a random sample, and study their website. There's so much information, absolutely, so much. For example, I'm a nurse. Worked in Nepal, worked in the UK and I also research around, not just in the UK or Nepal, but done some work for example, in Japan and also in India, also in African countries, I understand international nurse migration and health workers mobility. For me, it is difficult to understand their website, which one should I choose. With so much information I have, I still can't decide because they got so much more than anybody can actually process then make a decision, informed decision, where to go. So they are heavily reliant on international education consultancies as well because of overload of information, available online. It's not very simple.

Marty: 19:17

Yeah. We're not really an advice podcast, but if someone is looking to go overseas to study, how would they start to find a place? So you said that some of these consultancies now are at least organizing in these kind of semi formal groups, and doing some self-regulation. Are they organized enough that you could look up one that's got some sort of internal certification, or do you just rely on your friends who have gone and what they say?

Radha: 19:53

I would take some recommendation from friends and here their stories and, do some research myself, read some reviews if there is any available, and, talk to them and make a very careful decision and how much money they charge. And particularly you need to be very mindful of the course you're going to do, in the UK for example, or in Australia or anywhere. Do you really want to do that course or is it just a way to enter that country? You need to be clear about it before making any major commitment.

Marty: 20:30

Yeah, because it, sounds like there are some institutions that might not be 100 percent legitimate and maybe they set up courses just to attract people. Yeah. But whether or not they're actually helpful getting you into the labour market or actually training you with what you should know as, for example, a nurse, that's another thing. I think in Canada it might still be this way, it's been a long time since I was in school too if I was shopping around, I could just go somewhere and knock on the door, go in the office and ask them questions, and then get an idea that way. But I don't know if the culture is the same here, like you could just walk into one of these consultancies and say,'what can you do for me'? Is that something people would do or...?

Radha: 21:14

You can walk in, ask questions it's fine. And they will obviously have very promising ideas and, very convincing information definitely. But you can always look out for more information and decide. I got email from, for example, some nurse lecturer in Australian University. She was saying'in my course I teach 95% students are from Nepal. And I want to learn a little bit about Nepali culture. Why do we have so many Nepali students in this particular course'? You can see that in other parts as well: universities will have contact with particular education consultancies in Kathmandu, and they will recruit for that particular course, whether that course is useful for your future career or the course is just as a stepping stone

Marty: 22:11

We've discussed how they've mushroomed. There seems to be a little more, at least self-regulation now. People aren't maybe taking as big a chance when they go, work with one, spend money on one. But talking about students in general now, is there one or two pieces of advice that you would give them about okay, we know they're going to use an education consultancy because that's just what people do. Should they go to a bigger one rather than a smaller one? Or again, stick with ones that their friends have recommended? Or, are there a couple of things that you would tell your young nieces and nephews if they were going overseas?

Radha: 22:59

I would recommend them to go and understand and learn about them, but I wouldn't want them to completely trust them and, go with them. Learn as much as you can, but make your own decision. Understand your destination and country context, your university. Compare, contrast, and make choices after you have full information. I've seen that people who are from wealthy backgrounds and well networked, they don't go to international education consultancies they got their own network already there. And good private school in Kathmandu or in Nepal they don't need to use international education consultancy. People who have not got that connection and network will go to these education consultancies of course. And by going there some of them have set up their life, future career but not for everyone. People are compelled to use those services and(we) can't say,'don't go there', cause everybody wants to go abroad and learn and get, foreign degrees if they're genuinely getting foreign degrees. But be aware of all kind of pros and cons and make a decision.

Marty: 24:16

Any chance that the education system could help educate, like in grade 12 or plus two or whatever. one class that talks about this and labour migration as well.

Radha: 24:29

Totally. A primary, secondary school can do so much work to raise awareness. For example, we focus so much on English language here in Nepal. We met a group of, several groups of, Nepali students learning Japanese language in Japan. And their recommendation was like because so many Nepali go to Japan anyway, why don't, the government system teach some Japanese so we are ready there? And I realized that the point was very important: if we give value to Japanese language, similar value to Japanese language as to English, then we would definitely prepare them better. Yeah, primary school, secondary school can do so much more, not just preparing students for like foreign labour market. I was talking to one of the secondary school principal in Kathnmandu recently We talked about hierarchy of education or schools in Kathmandu. There's some top schools and all their graduates are for foreign supply. they go to foreign countries for education and they stay there. And the middle range, they are for other countries, like Japan for example, The middle range private schools will produce people for the Government of Nepal. And there are government schools and they produce for Nepal as well as for other countries, low profile countries I guess. So school can do so much. Yeah, definitely.

Marty: 26:07

Everyone understands how the system works. Yeah.

Radha: 26:10

Yeah, education system needs to address this migration issue at all level: primary, secondary, and university level as well.

Marty: 26:21

I'll repeat something I've been saying a lot recently since I started to understand it better, which is it's not always negative. There is a very big positive to migration, be it labour migration, be it education migration. It's done a lot for the country and not just in monetary terms. Okay, Radha, thank you very much. Thanks for coming and talking to me.

Radha: 26:45

Thank you for inviting me. I enjoyed talking to you about the issue I feel passionately about.

Marty: 26:51

Thanks again to Radha Adhikari for sharing her knowledge about migration of nurses and other students from Nepal. If you have questions or comments, you can email me at nepalnowpod(at)gmail.com. Thank you also to PEI, Policy Entrepreneurs Inc, for letting us record our conversation in their studio in Bakhundole for the first time it was a great experience. Did you know that you can contribute to this show by becoming a supporter for as little as$3 a month? If you don't have a credit card, you can contact me and we'll figure out a way to make it happen. I'll talk to you next time.