Nepal Now: On the Move
We're talking with the people migrating from, to, and within this Himalayan country located between China and India. You'll hear from a wide range of Nepali men and women who have chosen to leave the country for better work or education opportunities. Their stories will help you understand what drives people — in Nepal and worldwide — to mortgage their property or borrow huge sums of money to go abroad, often leaving their loved ones behind.
Despite many predictions, migration from Nepal has not slowed in recent years, except briefly during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic. About 1 million Nepalis leave every year to work at jobs outside the country. Tens of thousands go abroad to study. Far fewer return to Nepal to settle. The money ('remittances') that workers send home to their families accounts for 25% of the country's GDP, but migration impacts Nepal in many other ways. We'll be learning from migrants, experts and others about the many cultural, social, economic and political impacts of migration.
Your host is Marty Logan, a Canadian journalist who has lived in Nepal's capital Kathmandu off and on since 2005. Marty started the show in 2020 as Nepal Now.
Nepal Now: On the Move
UPDATE: Nepal graduate in Canada desperately looking for a job
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Today we’re catching up with Aayush Pokharel, a graduate student in Canada who we first talked to in May. This year, the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has severely cut the number of temporary residents it allows into the country, including international students. It also chopped the number of temporary work permits for grad students like Aayush, which are usually followed by a chance to apply for PR — permanent residency. Many temporary residents in Canada now worry that their PR dream is disappearing.
While Canada’s new rules have led to a spike in students applying for asylum, or refugee protection, Aayush says he’s not worried that he won’t qualify for PR – he just wants to get a job where he can use his education. Otherwise, what was the point of leaving Nepal?
Resources
Our first interview with Aayush Pokharel
Recent update from The Globe and Mail
Growing number of students claiming asylum
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Music by audionautix.com.
Thank you to Himal Media in Patan Dhoka for the use of their studio.
Since I have a bachelor's degree, I am not too concerned, like, for getting my pr. It's just the job. I don't want to be here working as a line cook for my life.
>> Marty:Welcome to Nepal, now on the Move. My name is Marty Logan. This is the podcast that talks to some of the tens of thousands of people migrating from, and sometimes to this small country surrounded by global giants, China and India. Occasionally, we call in an expert to try and better understand all of this movement. Today, we're catching up with Aayush Pokarel, um, a graduate student in Canada who we first talked to in May this year. The government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has severely cut the number of temporary residents it allows into the country, including international students. It also chopped the number of temporary work permits for grad students like Ayush, which are usually followed by a chance to apply for PR permanent residency. Many temporary residents in Canada now worry that their PR dream is disappearing. While Canada's new rules have led to a spike in students applying for asylum or refugee protection, Aayush, uh, says he's not worried that he won't qualify for pr. He just wants to get a job where he can use his education. Otherwise, what was the point of leaving Nepal? One note before we start a couple. At times, Aayush refers to the IRCC, which is Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Please listen now to my chat with Aayush Pokharal. Ayush Pokharal, uh, welcome again to Nepal now on the Move podcast.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Thank you so much, Marty. Good to talk to you again.
>> Marty:Definitely you too. So I think the question that many people might be asking about your situation, certainly the one that I'm wondering, as a recent international graduate in Canada, is this one, is your status in the country guaranteed or will you have to leave? So that's the main thing that, uh, we want to get at. But just before that, let me do a very quick summary of your journey to date. This can all be heard in the previous conversation we did, and I'll definitely have a link to that in the notes. But let me give a very quick summary and you can tell me if I've remembered things correctly. So you moved to Canada in September 2022 to do a graduate course in mechanical engineering design. And the plan was that you would finish the course and then start working based on a temporary work permit that you would get as a graduate student, and then you would be able to apply for permanent residency or pr. And while this was all going on, as you explained to us very well, you were working part time, you were super busy, like going to school at 8, getting home at 9 o'clock at night. Is that like a very good, simple description?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yes, this is perfect.
>> Marty:Okay, great. So since then, and we talked uh, earlier this year, I think we posted the recording in May. Since then the Canadian government has started making a lot of changes to the rules for temporary residents, which is the big category that includes international students. How has that affected you?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Like talking about the PR thing. It's getting too hard nowadays. Uh, they have closed a lot of streams and like if you take an example for the year 2025, like they are aiming uh, for just uh, 3, 300,000 people. It used to be like 5 lakh or 500,000. So they are reducing the number like drastically. And Even for the 2025, 2026, 2027, the numbers are too low. So I don't know like what decision they will take. Uh, including me, everybody is afraid of their decisions because we don't know what to expect and we don't know what to do.
>> Marty:Right, okay. Yeah, that would definitely be troubling. Okay, let's just step back a bit. So you graduated from your course, right?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Graduated, uh, June, July. Yeah, July I think.
>> Marty:Right. Okay. And then you started with this three, three year work permit that you kind of automatically got after graduating, right? Yes. So in theory you finish that work permit and then you would try to get a uh, PR permanent residency. Like are you already starting the process of applying for that PR or do you wait until the three years is up?
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, like I uh, need to have my PR within the three years. I can't like wait after the three years. I need to get the PR within the three years that I have, um, off my work permit. The process is like I need to work certain hours and get the criteria all set and apply. Um, like I think I have just five months in on my work permit. So like currently I'm not ready to apply for my pr.
>> Marty:Okay, so you, because you're supposed to wait a certain time or you need a certain number of hours. Like why are you waiting?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Because I need a certain number of hours.
>> Marty:I see, I see. And so when, when were you planning to apply?
>> Aayush Pokarel:I think uh, after seven to eight months if everything goes right. Because see, I'm working as a um, line cook in a restaurant right now. I try to search for a job. Like I had one interview as well for collision estimator. It was related to the course that I did. The second course that I did, it was auto body Repair techniques. So it includes, uh, estimating and then technicians, uh, and painting and all those things. And I was interested in collision estimating. So I applied for the job. I got the interview, but I got rejected. The only reason that I got rejected was because I didn't have my work permit back then because I was on my applied status and they thought that I don't have any status in Canada and they were afraid that I might not work for them or if I need their support to be here in Canada. So they told me that we can't go ahead this time. All the best for next time. So I'm still searching for the jobs and I don't know, there are too many people, so it's too competitive.
>> Marty:Yeah, yeah. It's tough. I know. Getting a job in Canada. And that timing, your timing was just really unfortunate. Right. It was just before you had your work permit. I just took some of these facts and figures from a recent article, like not yesterday, but it was in November in the Globe and Mail. So Ottawa announced cuts to the number of projected permanent residents it plans to admit in 2025, like you said, to 395,000 from 500,000 and then again down to 380,000 in 2026 and 365,000, uh, in 2027. That's a lot of changes. Yes.
>> Aayush Pokarel:If I apply in 2027, then I think I will be in 3065 or 360.
>> Marty:Yeah, 365,000. So even fewer.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yeah.
>> Marty:And so what's happening now, if I understand correctly, is because the overall number is shrinking, then the competition is getting harder, and so they're increasing the qualifications that you need, like the number of points that you need to qualify. Right.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Like being a mechanical engineer. If I want to apply for an entry level position, day one, three to like two to three years of experience. But, uh, people like me, I was not experienced. Like, I only had like six to seven months of experience back in my country. And I, I, I came here, but people have a lot of experience and they qualify within like, that criteria. But for people like me, we are too worried about getting the job.
>> Marty:Right. Okay. While you're on this temporary work permit, do you have to be working, like, all the time? Are you allowed to take a break? Does it matter what kind of job you're doing? I mean, I know that you want to get the job in your field. Of course that's your, that you just explained that's what you're trying to do. But in the meantime, can you keep working as you're doing now, like temporarily as a cook.
>> Aayush Pokarel:The thing is, like, uh, they have some criteria. We have knock O is for the managers, and knock A is for, like, I think, assistant manager or somewhat something like that. And knock B is for, uh, line cooks. So, like, if I am working in the same job and I have certain hours, like I'm working for a year and I call it something hours, then I can apply for my PR with, with this experience as well.
>> Marty:Okay, so then let's get back to kind of the original question. At the moment, you're working on this temporary work permit. You're still planning to apply for pr, and you're eligible to apply for PR from next year or to be admitted next year. You have until 2027 to get your PR. But you're worried that there's just going to be too much competition because the numbers are being reduced and you might not have enough points to get that pr. Is that the situation?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Since I have a bachelor's degree, I am not too concerned, like, for getting my pr. It's just the job. Like, I don't want to be here working as a line cook for my life. So I'm worried about that. But, like, if people are coming here for after their plus two, like high school, they don't have enough points.
>> Marty:Right. Okay. I mean, obviously the overall, the end goal of all of this is to reduce the number of temporary residents in the country. You're kind of safe there in the sense that you're not worried about having to go home before you get your pr, like to leave and not come back. But, um, you're not happy with the current job situation?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yes. That's the only problem I have right now. I try to think about it because I'm working in a restaurant. I graduated five months ago. And if I got any job, if I have gotten any job, I used to work in different company. And the position that I'm working right now, it used to be vacant. So new people can come there, I can go somewhere else. But the thing is, I don't have a job. I have to work where I'm still working. Because of that reason, the new students, they are not being able to get jobs. Like. Right. They land even. That is the problem.
>> Marty:Yeah. So the system is, like, getting backed up in a way. The first time we chatted, you told me all about your roommates who were all Nepali. You guys were all living together. Sounded like you were having a pretty good time. Yeah. What situation are they in? Are they very similar to yours? Or are some of them having a tougher time or easier time?
>> Aayush Pokarel:We shifted like a month back, and the one house that we have is divided into three different houses right now. So we have like, three different houses. People, like, split up because the family was getting too big. And, uh, the situation is same for everyone. Like, I have a friend who graduated a year before. His, uh, situation is the same. And I have a brother who graduated, I think, three months back. His situation is same. So we are on the same page. Like, everybody is searching for a job, everybody is doing their best, but I don't know what, what is not clicking.
>> Marty:There's just not enough opportunities out there at the moment.
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, but we have a lot of opportunities. We don't understand this. That thing. Like if I cheque. Indeed. Or if I go to LinkedIn or any other, uh, job sites. There are a lot of jobs. But I don't know if our application is not being able to crack the ATS system or our resume is not that good because we, whenever I apply, I go to job scan and I post my resume there and they give me, uh, some data, like the ATS cheque data, and it's good. Like it's above 80. That's fine. But I don't know what's not clicking.
>> Marty:Yeah, above 80 meaning, like, sorry, go ahead.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Every single people.
>> Marty:When you said above 80, you meant like, your qualification for that job were like, was like 80 out of 100. Is that what that means?
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, no. Like ATS system, the application tracking system that they use nowadays. Yeah, we get a score, like after we upload our resume to ATS System Checker, we get our score. It. It has to be above 80. The more the better. But like, the minimum is 80. So when, when I cheque it, it's above 80, but I don't know.
>> Marty:So your, your qualifications seem good enough. It's just that none of these applications are being successful.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yes, that's the problem.
>> Marty:Do you think that maybe the people who are hiring have heard so much about the changes to the system for temporary residents and temporary workers that they're just scared about making a commitment? Like your other experience when you went for the interview?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Um, no. The situation back then was like, I didn't have my work permit, I finished my studies, I had my completion letter. And after we get a completion letter, I'm not a student anymore. But on the same hand, I was not a worker anymore. Like, I just applied it for my work permit, and I tried to explain the recruiter this thing, but I don't know, like he was afraid or he didn't believe me or I was not too convincing for him. Uh, he asked me like multiple times, what's your status? And I was like, I'm on my applied status, I'm waiting for my work permit. It will come in like 15 to 20 days. And I don't know, I think he thought that I would not get my work permit because of the situation that IRCC is creating. I tried to apply in a factory, like for engineer position and they asked me for two to three years of industry, uh, experience and I didn't have any. So I thought of going to a factory and working as work as a, um, production associate, you know, the labour. So I went there, I completed my two weeks and I got into layoff. And the only thing, like the main motive about working in a factory was to gain some experience and to grow the network. But the situation in Canada is this bad that there is no work in factory and the production are slow and they are hiring and firing people without any, I don't know, emotional attachment or like in the first place, I don't know why they are hiring people if the production is low. So that was too confusing for me. I dropped that thing. Uh, and I thought that I'll practise my designing and I'll create a project, I'll create a portfolio and I'll send that to rec tutor. That's my plan right now.
>> Marty:That sounds like a good plan, actually. I mean, I understand what you're saying. It doesn't make sense that they would hire you for two weeks and then lay you off. It's got something to do with numbers, I guess, uh, and their labour, whatever their analysis. But, uh, yeah, if you can keep doing what you're doing with your portfolio and maintain yourself while working at the restaurant, then that sounds like a good avenue. I wanted to ask you also, I've been in Canada recently, but I wasn't talking to people so much about this, so I don't have a good sense of it. Have you found that in general? Because there's been so much talk about the number of temporary residents in Canada and you know, the. They've been linked to these problems with housing and job shortages and housing shortages and all these things in general, are you finding that people are treating you any differently than before that, let's say in 2022 and 2023 after you arrived in Canada? Or does it make any difference to the rest of your life? Like when you're out working, shopping in general, are you Being treated differently or the same?
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, it's same. Like, we have people everywhere, uh, who will treat like, will treat differently. But, uh, I had two encounters. Like, it was not in my professional way. I was just walking by, and some people, they. They told me something that was not appropriate. But other than that, we are good. Yeah.
>> Marty:Okay. And you're not worried about that? You don't think it's, like, part of a new trend or anything?
>> Aayush Pokarel:It might be, but what can we even do? It's not my country. I know there is law. I know there is everything. But when somebody mocks you or, like, tells you something bad, anything might happen to me. Right. This is not my place. So I just smile and I don't talk back. That's what I do.
>> Marty:Right. Okay. So this was some sort of racial ethnic statement. Yeah.
>> Aayush Pokarel:I had faced it twice. My friend has faced it once. Other than that, I have not heard about it. It was not, like, on a mall or on school. It was on the road. Just I was passing by with my friends, and they just told that.
>> Marty:Right, right. Okay. So not physical threatening or anything?
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, no, no. It was all verbal. But, like, I have heard stories. I think it was in Brampton, um, like, people are assaulting Indians. And even we Nepalis and Indians, we say are the same culture. And our faces also, it's similar. So I think they consider us, ah, Indian as well. And even we get the same treatment as they do.
>> Marty:Yeah. And now there's also this issue between Sikhs and, um, non Sikh Indians also in Brampton.
>> Aayush Pokarel:That's not a good thing. Because what I feel is, um, everybody is representing their own community. And it's obvious that the Canadians don't know, like, if I am Nepalis, I mean, if I'm Nepali or if I am Indian. So they see me as an Indian. And even, like, we seem the same. We share the same culture. Right. So I want to protect my culture. I want to protect my people. That's why I'm good to everybody. And even if there is some problem, I don't go. Like, I don't want to create more problems. So we need to think about that. Like, we are representing our community. So we should be good so that, like, the things that are going on would be, like, less.
>> Marty:Yeah, I get it. Kind of not to stir up trouble or provoke people or. I was wondering, uh, to me, all these changes that are being made, I understand them, but they seem quite unfair to people who are already in the country and working based on a set of rules. And the rules are kind of changing in the middle of their experience. Right. I know that some people are protesting these changes, uh, in Brampton, again, I know there was one kind of group that had set up a protest, but have you heard of anyone, like, taking the government to court or trying to legally fight these changes? Or are people just more or less going along with the new rules?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Like, not that I know of. But I like, as you told, like in Brampton, they are protesting about it, but not here in London. The people in London, they are trying to sift elsewhere to create opportunities for them, like PR opportunities to create a new PR pathway.
>> Marty:Have you thought about that? I mean, London is, uh, smallish city, I guess you would call it. Have you thought about going somewhere else? And I'm thinking mainly about Toronto, which is so much bigger and has more jobs, more people also. But have you considered that?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yes, I am applying to, like, all over Canada, but I can't just go and live in Toronto, like, for example, and start, and start looking for a, uh, new job. Like, I'm working in a restaurant right now. So financially I'm stable here. But if I move to Toronto, I need to find a job like wise in a restaurant or like a server or somewhere around the same line. And I have to be financially stable and then I'm. I have to look for a professional job. So what I'm doing is I'm applying for jobs right here, like from London. And if I got called from Toronto or Aurora or Berry, so I go there and I give interview, I come back here and if everything goes well, I'm ready to relocate, but I'm not able to tell it. Take the risk of moving out from London right now.
>> Marty:Yeah, that makes absolute sense. For sure. I mean, you want to stay where you have a job.
>> Aayush Pokarel:I have heard people saying that. Thank God you have a job in restaurant. People don't have job.
>> Marty:Yeah, it's tough, huh?
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yeah, yeah, it's getting tough. There are a lot of people, so it's difficult for us.
>> Marty:You said last time we talked that you felt like you were on the right track. Maybe a little behind your schedule, your plan, but you're on the right track still. How do you feel now? Are you still on the right track or is the track diverted? Uh, how are you feeling?
>> Aayush Pokarel:It's too overwhelming. But, uh, I'm searching for a job and I'm trying. Like, I go to LinkedIn, I do certification courses, and I try to talk to people, uh, in LinkedIn. I try to grow my network. Uh, considering this, I Think I'm on my. The track that I was on. But sometimes I think what I'm doing here because I am not getting any jobs. I'm not getting anywhere. I'm working in a restaurant. Uh, like sometimes I think, why did I come Even come here in Canada? Life used to be beautiful back in Nepal. But if I remove all the love that I for Nepal and just see my growth in Nepal, it was too less. Like it's. It was not enough for me. Uh, I had a dream that I will go to Canada. I will. I'll grow my knowledge, I'll grow, uh, emotionally and then financially. And I think we have a lot of opportunities, but there is something that's not clicking. I hope one day it will click. And that day I can tell that I was on my right track. I did all this hard work to get there, and I think everything will be all right.
>> Marty:Okay, well, that's quite positive. So you haven't considered, like, setting a time limit? I'll stay for one more year and if it doesn't work out, I'll go back to Nepal. Nothing like that so far.
>> Aayush Pokarel:No, because, uh, there is a huge investment here already made. So I can't just go back to Nepal without earning anything. Like, I'm not talking about money thing. Uh, it's just about like, uh, the professional thing, uh, the work culture and every. Every those things. So I can't just go back right now.
>> Marty:Yeah. I remember you telling me that you had this plan with your brother, right, that he would stay there, you would go away and get this. All of this experience and this knowledge and then come back and the two of you would do something when you got back to Nepal. Yeah.
>> Aayush Pokarel:I am applying for three different jobs. The one is, one is service advisor, the other one is collision estimator. And I'm trying to learn a lot about designing SolidWorks and all. I have set and target. Set a target for one design a day. And it's been like three days. I have created three different designs and I feel quite positive about it.
>> Marty:Okay, well, that sounds really good. So even though you're not the only work you have at the moment is in the restaurant, you're still really applying yourself to your field. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense for sure. What does your brother, um, and maybe your other family members. But it sounded like you were quite close to your older brother. How does he feel about all this?
>> Aayush Pokarel:I don't say anything to my family, so if they are going to hear this podcast, they might think that you were all right. What happened to you? Because I don't share this type of things. Like, I only share the positive things. So they don't know a lot about me and my struggles.
>> Marty:What? You just tell them that I graduated, I'm working, everything's good kind of thing.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Everything's good. I'm working. I'm working on searching for my job, and I'm fine. Finances are good, and I'm living a happy life, but I am living a happy life. But I want a job. That's the only problem that I have right now.
>> Marty:Yeah, yeah, it's pretty important. I understand what you're saying, but I also feel like sometimes you just gotta keep plugging away and it's gonna, it's gonna work out. It's gonna turn up that job.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Yeah, yeah. That's why, like, even when, when the friends, when we meet, uh, everybody is, like, positive and they try to help each other. I have a guy who has done MBA, uh, and he sends me designing jobs, uh, in LinkedIn. And if I, if I find any business analyst or, or the MBA jobs, I send him those jobs. So, like, we try to grow together.
>> Marty:Yeah, that's great. Right? That's networking. That's what they say you have to do. Okay. Ayush. Well, really, uh, good to talk to you again. I know how busy you are, so I appreciate you taking the time and I will certainly stay in touch if, uh, anything, let me know. And yeah, best of luck.
>> Aayush Pokarel:Thank you, Marty. Thank you so much.
>> Marty:Talk to you again.
>> Aayush Pokarel:All right, bye. Bye, Bye, bye.
>> Marty:Thanks again to Aayush Pokoral for chatting with me. Do you know anyone who migrated to Canada and is now uncertain about their future? Let us know. You can send a text by clicking on the link at the top of our show notes or message us on social. We're at Nepal now. Pod on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. You can also email us@nepalnowpodmail.com I'll talk to you next time.
