Nepal Now: On the move
We're talking with the people migrating from, to, and within this Himalayan country located between China and India. You'll hear from a wide range of Nepali men and women who have chosen to leave the country for better work or education opportunities. Their stories will help you understand what drives people — in Nepal and worldwide — to mortgage their property or borrow huge sums of money to go abroad, often leaving their loved ones behind.
Despite many predictions, migration from Nepal has not slowed in recent years, except briefly during the height of the Covid-19 pandemic. About 1 million Nepalis leave every year to work at jobs outside the country. Tens of thousands go abroad to study. Far fewer return to Nepal to settle. The money ('remittances') that workers send home to their families accounts for 25% of the country's GDP, but migration impacts Nepal in many other ways. We'll be learning from migrants, experts and others about the many cultural, social, economic and political impacts of migration.
Your host is Marty Logan, a Canadian journalist who has lived in Nepal's capital Kathmandu off and on since 2005. Marty started the show in 2020 as Nepal Now.
Nepal Now: On the move
Another nurse leaves Nepal, despite prime minister's appeal
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Nurses. I don’t know about you but when I think of people migrating for better opportunities one of the first groups that comes to mind is nurses. Not only in Nepal: I know that this is a huge issue for Caribbean countries and I read recently that in Nigeria, midwives too are being recruited to work in countries of the north.
Back in Nepal, over a third of nurses have sought documents that would permit them to practise overseas, I read in one media report.
I met Sudipa Poudel about 1 ½ years ago in Chitwan, a district in south-central Nepal. She was working as a school nurse and I believe she mentioned then that she might be going to work abroad soon. So when I caught up with her last month I wasn’t that surprised to hear that she was on her way to Canada. The big question was ‘why’?
You’ll have to keep listening to hear her answer, but for now I’ll say that Sudipa has already come a long way since she became a nurse a decade ago.
Please listen now to my chat with Sudipa Poudel, recorded at Himal Media at Patan Dhoka. Her words are interpreted by Heema Rai.
Resources
Nigerian midwives being recruited along with nurses — article
One-third of Nepali nurses consider moving — article
Prime Minister Oli appeals to youth to return home - article
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Music by audionautix.com.
Thank you to Himal Media in Patan Dhoka for the use of their studio.
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Nepal. Now on the move, where we talk with some of the thousands of people leaving this country every month, as well as to some of the few who return to settle in their homeland. My name is Marty Logan. Nurses, I don't know about you, but when I think of people migrating for better opportunities, one of the first groups that comes to mind is nurses, not only in Nepal. I know that this is a huge issue for caribbean countries, and I read recently that in Nigeria, midwives, too, are being recruited to work in countries of the north. Back in Nepal, over a third of nurses have sought documents that would permit them to practise overseas. I read in one media report I met Sudipa Powder about one and a half years ago in Chitwan, a district in south central Nepal. She was working as a school nurse, and I believe she mentioned then that she might be going to work abroad soon. So when I caught up with her last month, I wasn't that surprised to hear that she was on her way to Canada. The big question was why? You'll have to keep listening to hear her answer, but for now, I'll say that Sudipa has already come a long way since she became a nurse a decade ago. Please listen now to my chat with Sutipa Powderl, recorded at Himal media in Patendoka. Her words are interpreted by Hima Rai. Sudipa Paudel. Welcome to Nepal now podcast.
>> Sudipa:Thank you, Marty, for inviting me in this podcast.
>> Marty:It's, uh, great to have you here. Thank you for, uh, coming in on such a rainy day. I know it wasn't easy. Uh, so we're here to talk about your coming migration. You're going to be leaving, uh, Nepal shortly. But before we get into the details of your move, let's talk a little bit about your background, where you were born, where you went to school, and if you moved around to different places. Uh, um.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I was born and brought up in Nepal. Nepal is a developing nation, and I come from a middle class family, so I have faced a lot of struggle in my life. For example, we had very limited resources, and I spent private school, um, not so good private school for ten years. Even then, we had to struggle a lot. For example, we studied in candlelight, and me and my two other siblings, we used to fight for the light of candlelight. So, you know, uh, even with all the struggles, um, I've come up to here in my life.
>> Marty:Okay. And before you go any further, that was in Chitwan, correct? You grew up in Chitwan district, right? Okay, sorry, continue. You were nursing. Jain Gauri Mathis Pachira nursing background, Maze.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:And then I joined nursing. But before we talk about my nursing journey, I also want to talk about why I joined nursing. So, um, uh, it was maybe when I was around eight, my grandfather was a cancer survivor, but he also expired due to that illness. And um, I've always felt like part of the reason of his death was because we lacked the resources to treat him or give him proper care. And in my family, even my brother and sister, they are both in the medical field. My sister is a nurse and my brother is a dentist. He's a dentist, dental doctor. So the white coat already had some attraction for me. I always felt like, oh, I'm going to wear this white coat and care for my, I care for my parents like I cared for my grandfather. And so that's um, part of the reason, part of my motivation for joining the nursing profession.
>> Marty:So when you were already, you were still quite young. I mean, you were thinking about being a nurse. Like, this was when you were in elementary school, primary school. Yes. Um, um, mentions m.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:When I cared for my grandfather during that time, I had some insight. So it was during my elementary school time I um, started caring and I felt like, okay, I want to care for other people also. But the concretecision of actually joining nursing, I met that after the high school, after my grade ten.
>> Marty:Okay, so then obviously you did that, you're a nurse. So after you finished high school, you went into uh, nursing college, I guess after ten classes. Nursing college, diploma in nursing.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yeah. And after my um, grade ten, I joined diploma in nursing, which is a three years course. I passed that course in 2014 and I became a registered nurse in 2015. March 15 I joined a private clinic. Um, my first salary, I remember to this day was just 5000. So it was a bit of depressing. My relatives, friends also used to say, okay, you spent five lakhs studying nursing and you're just getting a salary of 5000. It was a bit demotivating, but, but then I thought this is a struggle for a better upcoming days. And then my, I also get a raise. But it was just 2000. So I worked for nine months in the salary of 7000. So it was, uh, demotivating. It was, um, hard, but I always felt like, okay, better days are coming and I need to face the struggle for a better future. So that, that was my driving factor. Yeah. And during that time I also applied to a lot of hospitals, but I could, um, they would never hire me. I would be put in the waiting list. But I never actually got the job.
>> Marty:Okay, so it sounds like despite making a little, only a small amount of money at the beginning and eventually it was increased slightly, but, and then despite not also being hired after these interviews, you were still optimistic. You were thinking that better days will be coming. So what happened? Did the better days come? M.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Um, during that time when I was working in the private clinic, both of my parents were unemployed. My brother was always studying, um, a masters in dental in a scholarship. So even within my 7000 salary I used to give 3000 to my mother and I used to only uh, use 4000 for all of my transportation, my personal needs, everything. And now when I think about those days I feel like oh my God, how could I manage myself in 4000? It sounds amazing to me right now, but I did all that back in the day.
>> Marty:Up till now you're still working as a nurse. Are you still in the same uh, institution or different hospitals?
>> Sudipa Poudel:And thank God I got chance in government.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So then I applied to a government hospital and um, thank God I also got the job. And my salary also was uh, three times what I was receiving. So it was seven times 321 thousand. I worked there for one and a half years later I got a teaching job. Um, I worked as a teacher for the CMA and A and M course which are these 18 month medical courses. And things started improving. I got 21,000 from the hospital on the teaching job. Also I received the same amount of salary. So now from seven k I was receiving six times more salary and it was really good. And then I also started putting away some money to save up for my education because my family condition was such that I couldn't ask my parents uh, to fund my bachelor's education.
>> Marty:Okay, from this point you started doing, I'm guessing thinking ahead, you started doing a bachelor's degree and you finished the bachelor's degree and are working as a nurse. Can you bring us right up to today?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:When I completed my bachelor's in nursing then I joined a hospital and it was during the COVID time and I worked as a frontline nurse during the pandemic. Um, but then I got a little frustrated with the job and so I uh, started working as a nursing instructor. But then I got an interest in community work so I started working as a school health nurse and real debt. I'm working as a school health nurse.
>> Marty:And we met one and a half years ago, maybe in Chitwan. You were a school nurse? Then I was in Chitwan doing some reporting. So that's how you're here today. Okay, so you've kind of done this, uh, ten years of working as a nurse and progressed very well, and it sounds like your career is going upwards and now you're making this very big change. So tell us what you're doing and when you're doing it and where you're going and all of that.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So I started applying for colleges, um, foreign colleges abroad, and I thought about applying to University of British Columbia in Canada. I made a plan and I actually applied for it in 2023, September, and luckily I got an offer letter in January of 2024. And since May 1, I'm actually enrolled in the masters in nursing in the college, and I'm doing an online course right now.
>> Marty:Great. And you applied to that particular university, I think, because your husband is in Canada.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:M so my husband is also in Canada, and he's actually doing a PhD in University of British Columbia. Um, so he used to talk a lot of m about University of, um, UBC, and he had a lot of positive things to say about it when I applied to it. He encouraged me to apply to a few other universities as well. So I also applied to University of British Columbia, Vancouver, and TrU, and I was planning to apply to two or three more universities, but luckily I got offer letter from British Columbia itself, from Vancouver also. I had got, um, an offer later, but it was conditional. They wanted me to retake the English exam, but then I got an offer later from University of British Columbia, so I didn't have to do that.
>> Sudipa Poudel:University of British Columbia, Okanagan and Vancouver, I had applied both, but I got, uh, offered letter in UBC, Okanagan College.
>> Marty:And so you said that you started classes May 1, and tell me again, what's your schedule for these classes?
>> Sudipa Poudel:One of the traumatising.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So, yes, I'm enrolled in the online classes. And, um, if I think about it, it's like a very traumatising experience for me right now because sometimes I have to stay the whole night because the time zone in Canada and Nepal is so different. Um, the classes over there, it falls during the night time in Nepal. So sometimes I have to stay for the whole night. Sometimes I wake up at twelve, uh, 45 in the midnight and start studying. And sometimes I also face language barrier during these night classes. So it's very hard for me to manage, uh, this situation right now. And in the daytime, I already have a job as a school nurse, so sometimes I find myself going to school sporting all these dark circles because I haven't slept a wink at night. So in between my, uh, day job and my night classes, I also have family commitments, and I'm now married. So it's real difficult to balance m everything right now. And again I tell myself, better days are ahead. That's how I move forward. And I, um, reassure myself, okay, once you are in Canada, you'll be in the same time zone, and it's not going to be that difficult. So that's how I'm moving forward. Like, hoping for better days. And I know better days are there.
>> Marty:Obviously, you're keeping very busy. Right. Um, with all of these things you just described. But you're leaving quite soon. You're here in Kathmandu for your passport. Have you had time to kind of stand back and just think about overall, like, how you're feeling about leaving the country and your family and your friends. Are you feeling a bit sad? Are you feeling excited, anxious? How do you feel, to be honest?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:To be honest, I have a very mixed feeling about leaving Nepal. On one hand, um, my career is progressing where I want to see it. I will also be finally with my husband. So it's a win there. And I feel really happy. My dream is also coming true. So whenever I think on those lines, it makes me really happy. Um, but then again, I think about leaving Nepal, leaving my motherland where I was born and brought up. And I played where all my family is. And it makes me really sad. So it does make me emotional. During childhood, whenever we see an aeroplane in the sky, we feel happy, jubilant. But now whenever I see an aeroplane, I feel like, okay, I will be living in an aeroplane very soon. And I've started counting down the days till I'll be in Nepal and I'll be in Canada. And, um, it makes me really sad, I have to say. It's a very, very mixed feeling, a mixed emotion right now.
>> Marty:It's very understandable, I think, that you feel that way. I'm curious. So you've been a nurse for a, ah, decade, and you've worked with lots of nurses. You studied with nurses. So you obviously know many nurses. We keep hearing about how many nurses are leaving Nepal. Uh, not only nurses, there are doctors also, but especially, I think, nurses. How many are going abroad to work? Do you have friends who have done this? Like, maybe not exactly Canada, but other countries have many left Nepal already? Ah, m most of the majority of.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Nurses, yes, a lot of people from Nepal are going abroad for more opportunities. And especially in my nursing field also, majority of nurses are going abroad or trying to go abroad for their studies and for their employment, especially after Covid, uh, worldwide, we've seen a, uh, difference in the way the nursing profession is being looked at here. If we look at Nepal, nurses are really undervalued. Like, we have really low salary, we have a huge workload, and the patient to nurse ratio is also used and we get overwhelmed. But if you look at, uh, developed nations like Australia or Canada or America, for example, the nurses get a lot of, uh, respect, and the, uh, work environment is also really good. So whether it's for work, employment, or a lot of nurses, even many of my colleagues, majority of my colleagues are already abroad. And not only my colleagues, even the students I taught, many of them, majority of them are already abroad. Um, in the US, a lot of nurses give the NCLEx exam and go for work in Canada. Also, a lot of, um, nurses work there as a registered nurse. Just this morning, I was talking to one of my nepali colleagues who is also working as a registered nurse in Canada, and she told me that in the beginning, ah, it's a bit of a struggle for me, but the working environment is really good over there. They give us, um, lessons about ethics. They have the orientation. She said that in the beginning, it may take us up to one to two years for adjustment. There are some barriers, of course, but then it gets really good. And the health system of Canada is really good, and it's a really good working environment for nurses.
>> Marty:It sounds like working conditions in general are one of the main reasons you're going. One of the things that you anticipate is going to be better when you get there is the overall working conditions for you as a nurse. And I'm wondering, Canada and Nepal are very different, obviously. Right. So you're going to gain this thing when you're in Canada. You're going to have a better job, let's say, because the working conditions are better. Have you thought about what you're going to be leaving behind? Um, for example, I know from being in Canada and Nepal that the so called cultural things are maybe valued more highly here in terms of family time. And there are more festivals where you get together and celebrate. Are you thinking about the things that you're going to, in a way, lose by leaving Nepal or you're only focused on what's ahead of you, of course. Uh. Uh.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Yeah, I think about that a lot. Yes, of course. I'm going to miss a lot of things. Sometimes there are situations where it's a win win situation, but sometimes there are also win and loss situations. So it's kind of like that in my case right now. I'll miss my family. I'll miss, uh, not being with them, the family touch, the festivals. I think about that every day and I'm also preparing myself for that. And to some extent I feel like my husband is over there. So maybe spending time with him, quality time with him, is going to compensate for some of the things that I'm going to lose when I'm in Canada.
>> Marty:I realised that I kind of assumed something when I said that you're going for better working conditions. So let me ask you directly, what are the reasons why you want to go and do this in Canada? How do you explain it to people when they ask you, why are you going? Why do you want to go specific?
>> Sudipa Poudel:There are various reasons.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:So there are various reasons why I chose Canada. Uh, one of the things is that I've always wanted to update my knowledge regarding different nursing and health practises around the world. I want to get that exposure because limiting myself only to Nepal, a developing nation, only focusing on local, I think I'm not satisfied with that. I want to actually stay, um, abreast of what's happening globally and I want to update myself. So that's one of the reasons why, uh, I was, um, applying for study abroad. And then another is, of course it will open a, ah, window of opportunity for me. And besides that, I will also have a lot of learning opportunity because I'm learning from the best, I'm learning modern technologies, I'm learning in a different environment, which I'm not used to in Nepal, of course. Um, besides that, my husband is obviously there, so that's also, uh, automatically a plus point for Canada, but just its healthcare system. I've heard so much about it from my colleagues, we've been there and I've also done my research and comparing different nations. Um, Canada's healthcare system seems to be very good, maybe better than most countries. And that's why, um, I've chosen Canada.
>> Marty:I hope you're right about Canada's healthcare system. I keep hearing bad stories about it, um, since I haven't lived there, but I know it still has some very good positive aspects. So I don't know if you heard about this news this week. Prime Minister Oli is in the US and he gave one talk where he kind of appealed to the young nepali youth to come back home and help build the country and we'll make opportunities for you and, you know, we only want the best for the young people and the country. When you hear that. What do you think? Um.
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:I also listened, uh, to that interview of our prime minister, and I found it really positive. He is right. Um, I agree with him that youth are the asset or the gems of, uh, Nepal. But, um, why youth are leaving Nepal. We also have to look at that side. It's mostly for employment or study. So if we also get that golden opportunity in Nepal, of course we are going to be staying in Nepal, or even those of us who have gone abroad, many of us are going to come back if there's an opportunity at home. So, uh, ministers and policy makers have to think about creating such policies or such environment in Nepal so that we don't have to leave or we get a good working environment or study opportunity in Nepal, or that propels us to come back to our country once we are done. Um, for myself, it's too soon to tell whether I'll be returning back home or not. But definitely if there's good environment and if I feel like, okay, I can do some good, then I'm going to come back. There are also examples where people, um, who have studied abroad or working abroad have come back. There are Nepalese, for example, our recent ex education minister, Sumana Shrestha. She also studied abroad, but came back to Nepal. And Miss Nepal. 2018, Srinkala Kathy Oda, who studied in Harvard but then come back. There are examples within my own medical field. For example, doctor Vola Rizal or doctor Gobinda Gisi. Both of them were abroad, but they came back saying that they are committed to the nepali health system. And there are quite a lot of other examples from other fields as well.
>> Marty:How long is your course? And then, um, when you finish this master's degree, is the plan that you would try to get a job in Kelowna or around Kelowna in a hospital? Is that, uh, how you think it will go?
>> Heema Rai, interpreter:Uh, yes. I want to work in Canada after finishing my studies, so I'm currently enrolled in a two years course, but I have enrolled myself as a part time student. So they have given me until 2029 to finish my course, but I want to get it done within, uh, 2026 May. And I've also, um, been trying to get registered as a nurse over there because I want to balance both study and job. Of course, first, uh, when I arrive there, my focus is going to be my studies. But if I can get some part time jobs or if my registered nurse application, um, um, is sanctioned, then I also want to work and study together. Um, and after I finished my studies, I actually want to work in the canadian health system because I want to experience that. Whether I will be successful or not, I cannot say, but that's my plan.
>> Marty:Okay, very good. Thank you very much for taking all this time to talk to me.
>> Sudipa Poudel:Thank you, Martin, for your time.
>> Marty:And I wanted to say also, good luck in Canada, and maybe after you're there for some time, we can and have an update chat.
>> Sudipa Poudel:Sure. I feel so happy to be, uh, in touch with you.
>> Marty:Thanks again to Sutipa Powdal for speaking with me today. Let me know what you thought of this episode and your opinion on nurses leaving Nepal for better opportunities. Also, I'd love to get your tips on possible guests for the show. Email me@nepalnowpodmail.com or message us on our social channels. We're Nepal Nowpod. You can also send us a text message by clicking on the link at the top left of the notes to this or any episode. It's a us number, so from Nepal, it'll cost you about rs8. That's all for now. I'll talk to you next time. Mhm.
