Kathmandu-Kabul-Kathmandu: Prem Awasthi feels his roots getting shallower

From Kathmandu to Kabul is not really that far in this era of daily intercontinental flights. And today’s guest Prem Awasthi is also fortunate in that he gets to make the return trip home at least every six weeks. But still, he already feels that less than a year after migrating to work abroad, his roots in his homeland are somehow shallower. 

If you missed it, Prem was the first ever guest of the show after we relaunched earlier this year to focus solely on migration and Nepal. In that chat, he told us about his early life in Doti district, in Nepal’s Far West region. When he spoke you could hear his deep attachment to that place, so I wonder—for him, does living and working in Kabul not only mean being away from his country, but does it also signify one more step away from his deepest roots, in his home village?

In our latest chat, which we recorded at Himal Media in Patan Dhoka, we also discuss if Prem has become comfortable in his new, less visible role, on a much larger team, that he’s taken on in Afghanistan. His tasks there are much different than during the nearly two decades that he worked on the frontlines of humanitarian assistance for the UN in Nepal. 

Finally, Prem has some thoughts for others who might be contemplating a similar move. 

Send us feedback and ideas. We'll respond to every message:

LinkedIn

Instagram

Facebook

Voicemail

Music by audionautix.com.

Thank you to Himal Media in Patan Dhoka for the use of their studio.

Chapters

• 5:20 Getting settled in Afghanistan
• 9:30 Is the work meaningful?
• 17:00 Learning about Kabul and culture
• 25:45 Treatment of women and girls

Transcript

0:00

Hi everyone, this is Marty.

Thanks for joining me for another episode of Nepal Now: 0:02

On the Move, where you'll hear from some of the huge numbers of people leaving this country, as well as from some of the few who return to settle in their homeland. Once in a while we'll invite an official or expert to help us understand these migrations. From Kathmandu to Kabul is not really that far in this era of daily intercontinental flights. And today's guest, Prem Awasti, is also fortunate in that he gets to make the return trip home at least every six weeks. But still, he already feels that less than a year after migrating to work abroad, his roots in his homeland are somehow shallower. If you missed it, Prem was the first ever guest of the show, after we relaunched earlier this year to focus solely on migration and Nepal. In that chat, he told us about his early life in Doti District in Nepal's Faroe West region. When he spoke, you could hear his deep attachment to that place. So I wonder, for him does living and working in Kabul not only mean being away from his country, but does it also signify one more step away from his deepest roots in his home village. In our latest chat, which we recorded at Hemal Media in Patendoka, we also discuss if Prem has become comfortable in his new less visible role in a much larger team that he's taken on in Afghanistan. His tasks there are much different than during the nearly two decades that he worked on the front lines of humanitarian assistance for the UN in Nepal. Finally, Prem has some thoughts for others who might be contemplating a similar move. Now, please listen to my chat with Prem Awasti. Prem Awasti, welcome again to Nepal now on the Moon podcast. Thank you, Marty. Good to be back. Good to see you again after eight months, roughly. Yeah, indeed, eight months. And thanks for hosting me again. My pleasure. I'm eager to hear about your life and what's been happening. And the first thing I wanted to ask you about is you've been back in Nepal now for a few days or almost a week. And I'm curious about what do you really miss? I know you do these trips fairly regularly. What are the things that you really look forward to? Other than the people of your family, obviously. Do you come back and think, I have to have momo or I have to go to Shivapuri and hiking? What are the things that you want to do first? Yeah, I'm here for two weeks. And what I miss mostly is more outdoor activity, which due to security reason and due to other reason, it's been restricted in Kabul. So I have very limited outdoor activities there. So that is something I miss. In terms of food, I miss, of course, dal bhat. I'm not that dal that person, but once in a while to have a good full dal bhai set is quite good. And meeting with friends, catching up, you know, chatting on the contemporary issues, so hanging around. So these are mainly that I miss mostly the socialization part with family and also with friends. Of course, other activities going around walking, hiking, traveling. Do you hear much about Nepal when you're in Kabul, like through news, or are you aware of what's going on in Nepal? We're not really. I do follow, but not on a day to day, or, you know, like every event I don't follow, because I don't have that much time, because I'm focused on other work. But in general, I'm updated, but mostly what's going, particularly like weekly basis, or at the end of day, I try to look through Twitter. And so how are things going in Kabul? Like we said, it's been about eight months. Are you feeling comfortable there? Like, do you have a good routine set up? And do you feel like it's a second home, at least if it's not your real home? I'm almost settled. Yeah, it's been eight months in terms of my, you know, tuning in with my day to day life there. And I also, again, more knowledge about firsthand knowledge about Afghanistan. It's history, ongoing issues, interacting with Afghani people. And also picking up some local language, trying to learn, you know, understanding more about Afghani society, it's history. And the whole, this Induku's Himalayan reason and how the culture's been shaped. So there are some interesting reflection and knowledge, almost there. In general, I'm now quite used to and settled in Afghanistan. So I was going to ask you, obviously what took you there was a job in career, but there's another side to your life and everyone's life, the personal side. And I was going to ask you about that because I know that because of security, you need to live in a more secure confined space. But from the response you just gave, it sounds like you're not only focused on work, like you are getting to know people and history. And do you find that there are some things that engage you personally, other than just the work? Yeah, there are some personal activities as well and also mostly with other colleagues, friends with local Afghani people, you know, chatting with them, sometimes listening them. Even this year, there are pain again, you know, that also brings another perspective in your life, engaging with some physical sports type, you know, like spinning, yoga. So these are some engagement outside of work, maybe running. So you're keeping physically fit? Yeah, I think I am more fit, healthier compared to eight months ago. I lose like five kids a week. Well, that's great. Yeah, partly because you have more time to do these things, no? And also it's, I cook myself, I do minimal cooking. And also, you're really hungry. And also, you know, like dry fruits, Afghanistan is famous for dry fruits and, you know, like breakfast making is muddy out of those dry fruits. And also, you know, they are very, very good at cooking. And that's why I'm really happy. And also, I think it's really good to have a lot of fun and fun. Turning to the work stuff, when we talked the first time, we talked a lot about your motivation, you know, the things that you were considering about going or not going. The decision you were making, and I know that you really emphasized that you felt like you wanted to make a contribution. You felt like you had made a contribution in your work here when you were working with the UN, and that you were looking forward to the opportunity to doing the similar thing, but working at, you know, regional level and even global level. And so I'm wondering, after eight months, I know it's still a relatively short period of time, but do you feel like you're making a contribution? Do you feel like you're part of a bigger kind of positive project the way you were here in Nepal? Yeah, I think the answer may be with two perspectives. One is, you know, a lot of Nepalists, they are migrating most predominantly the migrant workers, whether Middle East or Malaysia. And, you know, like how many Nepalists are in international organizations and at the global, you know, globally contributing, the global peace, security, promoting humanity. From that perspective, there are limited Nepalists out there. So I think I also feel the sense of kind of pride and also sense of responsibility that as a global citizen, it's our duty to contribute, whether it's a global level or regional level. And so in that way, I'm quite satisfied and also quite motivated that why not Nepal can also contribute at the global regional stage, contributing, you know, promoting peace, security and also promoting humanity. And other part, when you are in a new society, you also have a limited, you're navigating skill and it may take time. And here, when I was working with UN in Nepal, you know, I was dealing with day-to-day activity, mostly the humanitarian issues, trying to find the solution to the problem. So sometimes, you know, there was more motivation. I was considering as a calling, you know, like to contribute at global, regional level, there are challenges, there might be ups and downs, but still you are contributing to the bigger agenda and also not as individually from representing the country, society and offering that assistance is also quite fulfilling. So it sounds like you're saying, and maybe I'm not quite understanding this, but it sounds like you're saying, you know, when you were in Nepal, working in Nepal, you were like a big cog in a smaller wheel. Now you're in Kabul, you're a smaller cog in a bigger wheel. Is that? Yeah, yeah, that's kind of a good analysis. Okay, okay. And are you happy being a smaller cog in a bigger wheel or do you think that at some point you would need to become a bigger cog in that Afghan wheel? Because there are different roles in a way. Like I know you understand that this role is different and so your own personal situation and work will be different, but that doesn't mean that you enjoy it as much, right? So you might enjoy one style more than the other. And I, you know, from what I, the little I know about your work here, you were very much at hands on kind of person who had so many contacts and you were able to go out and like you say, deal with things very directly. And in Kabul, it sounds like it's quite different. Your role is more indirect, helping to keep something going. Do you think you can get comfortable in the new role? I mean, I'm in a learning curve. The current job requires different skills, skills, knowledge and also different sort of deliverables. I'm in one thing at a time. I'm, as I said, I'm in a learning curve and I will slowly catch up. Compared to my previous job here in my own society, in my own country, I have a good connection with, you know, different national actors, local actors, leaders, international community, from senior level to, you know, like common people. So which has, it's on beauty, you know, to be connected. So I'm not looking like a same kind of profile as I move on with my current job, but within a rank and file, within that system, yeah, definitely I have my own goals vision, how I move forward. I'm really at the global list is learning more, diplomacy, learning more skills, more connecting with different societies and different cultures that I'm learning. And I'm sure that I won't have the same visibility as I used to be, I used to have here in Nepal. Yeah. You strike me as very patient. I remember thinking about this before, you're someone who's very patient and you know where you want to go and you're willing to take the time to get there. I'm not sure I'm that patient actually. I'm not saying it's wrong or anything, but I appreciate that you really seem to have thought it through and see the steps and are willing to take the steps as they come. It's also how you reconcile with your life. The work in Nepal was quite challenging and also you know, you may be upset frustrated because things might not move, might not change. You may not be able to address the issues, feeling health less days. So I have gone through those kind of phases, but I was consistently doing that work for more than 15 years, particularly at the front level or kind of as a front worker. So I think it was a time for me to move on with another skill and also looking, you know, maybe another side of the work. So I think I'm prepared for next couple of years, focusing on my current job or looking around kind of similar skill sets. So it gives another perspective. You know, everywhere there is a problem. I mean in the Middle East, even the place where I work in the Southeast Asia, there has been a problem. So looking more from global perspective is also another, you know, perspective in life and also contribution. I might not be directly contributing more busy, but as a part of global body working for that definitely, there is my contribution. Okay. Enough about your movement within the system or your... You see that? I wanted to ask you, you did talk about security and last time we met, which we didn't record, but we met and I think you said that you still hadn't been able to move around Afghanistan much. Is that still the case, or have you had a chance to see some of the countries? I moved around Kabul. Kabul is a beautiful, but big, big valley. So had an opportunity to move around Kabul, but due to some reason my travel in a countryside has been postponed. So I'm hoping that in the next month, I might be able to go around in a few locations at the province level and, you know, filled the first hand experience. I mean, this is quite big country and it has diverse social groups and also the geography. Summer, quite mountain summer, you know, close to the southern, more close to Iran. I think even it is connected with China, the big person with Pakistan, Iran, Pakistan, Uzbekistan. So these are the neighboring countries. We were talking a bit before we started about weather rainfall and the effects on the countryside of the rains heavily, possibility of landslide from these extreme weather events. The same thing obviously is happening in Nepal now during the monsoon. I know you said you haven't been all much, but do you see many parallels between Nepal and Afghanistan, you know, not only physically, but also in terms of the people and social economically. When you are doing your work on Afghanistan, do you think a lot about Nepal and compare them? Yeah, I tried to find connection, you know, whenever I had the opportunity to interact with people and also have a post-hands, you know, observation of things. So it's a mountainous country and Nepal also has a huge portion of mountain part, though it has a plan, but mostly portrayed as a mountainous country. The weather pattern unfortunately is impacting the extreme events are happening. Last month there was a big flooding, lightning and certain parts got heavily devastated. It used to be a rainfall-shadow area, so the soil is more porous. It's like Mustang, here in Nepal, so similar type of geography and the soil condition. In terms of culture, people, there is a connection, particularly there are certain areas, the mountain, real mountain community, so like a tea, you know, there is a special mountain tea here in Nepal. So similar tea you can find in Afghanistan, particularly among the mountainous community, the sheep hoarders, you may find. And actually Afghanistan is quite rich in different kind of hubs, high value agriculture product, which Nepal also has. Yeah, there are also like some connection with food and the dumplings, there are different types of dumplings they have. It's similar to momos here in Nepal. Everyone's favorite food. Everyone's favorite food. And they have also culture of dal, but their cooking is quite different. They have more superstar dal and Afghani dal is, you can eat it, it could be like a staple. So these are connections and also with clothing. Yeah, I mean, how you see things, you know, if you see like from connecting perspective, you can connect things when you try to divide. And you know, you may not see similarities, but I see a lot of similarities in terms of pattern and how family interact, the family values is also quite similar. It's more joint family and very much interdependence part within a family. So these are quite connecting things. I think you said to me last time that you come back every four to six weeks, roughly? Yes. Which on one hand seems fairly often, especially compared to some people who go overseas to work and don't make it back, you know, once a year or once every two years, whatever. But I'm wondering, do you find it difficult to be a way even for a relatively short period of time? Do you feel like you're missing things with your family or you're able to quickly kind of jump in and catch up? It's difficult. Psychologically, you are traveling, you are on a move. So there is kind of this psychological element being far away, being migrated. So I think your roots are getting more shallow. So that kind of psychology thing impacts you one way or other. I mean, compared to those who migrate for quite long, for once, for years, six months, or two, three years. So I have a luxury of coming back every six weeks, at least four to six weeks. Just to reconnecting with family, friends. But still, there is this psychological kind of impact, at least your roots are getting shallow on soil. Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it. I was just talking to someone about this today, actually. We were talking about the fact that from his perspective, many Nepalese, when they leave the country, and these are more kind of professional people who relocate. Even after they arrive, they spend a lot of time talking about how bad things were in Nepal or whatever their home country is. But over the years, they get more nostalgic. And then when they get close to retirement age, then they keep saying, "I need to go back home and be back in my home soil and smell the air or whatever of my home country." And I think it's true of a lot of people. Even when I travel to Western countries where you don't see chaos in the street or so, living there for more than a week, then you feel homesick. Like streets are empty. Even in the United States, in the countryside where there is fairly less population, you don't see people, then you feel homesick, not seeing people, not confronting with any chaos. So we've been grown up. It's part of like our life here. My wife says exactly the same thing. When we lived in other places, you know, fairly big cities, for her it's still too quiet because Kathmandu, there is just that, you know, that mix of so many things happening simultaneously that you don't get so much in Western cities. And like you say, sometimes it's chaotic and there are so many things coming at you from every possible direction. And, you know, when I try to keep up with what's happening in Afghanistan, like so many other places, and one of the news points that you hear about fairly regularly is how the treatment of women and girls under the Taliban. And obviously it's a very difficult situation and from what I can tell, not getting any better in terms of women's access to society and culture outside of the private house. And I know that you have daughters and you're obviously married. And is this an issue that you think about? How do I put this? But because of that. Yeah. No, I can relate with me that context because I have two daughters. When I meet friends in Afghanistan, those who have daughters, the shared stories that their daughters are crying like 16 years, 17 years, they are not going to schools. So yeah, I closely relate with that. Yeah, it's unfortunate how women and girls, they have limited opportunities and all their rights been curtailed. It's heartbreaking to hear all those stories. Yeah. I guess that's when you're thinking about the work you're doing there and making a contribution, this could be like a motivating factor, something that your work ideally will help to improve the situation. I'm not trying to make a political statement. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying if you try to imagine your work concretely. Yeah, no, definitely, I mean, the society is governed with division of labor. Someone has to do the work and I have an opportunity to work on that country where there is a crisis. So definitely, yeah, it's, though I am not directly contributing, but as I'm working there, so there is some contribution from my end. Okay, so this is my last question and it's a bit of a cliche question, but I'll ask anyway. So through all of these eight months in Kabul and traveling back and forth and then being home for these short breaks, what is one or two lessons? I hesitate to use the word lessons, but what do you think are things that you've discovered, either about yourself or about Afghanistan or about the UN working in the UN, are there things that have kind of resonated with you in this time? Yeah, it's quite reflective question. I need to reflect, but definitely looking at myself where I want to go and how I want to contribute. And I had a good opportunity to learn more about Afghanistan. So I've been reading like even literature, or pictures on Afghanistan. It's really interesting to know that. And once Afghanistan used to be like a hippie's trail, you know, how whole things has gone, you know, badly, this is again heartbreaking story. From societal, political also, there has been quite a reflection, you know, like how this left, right, right, left things evolves over the time. So that is also another kind of things for wondering, pondering, thinking for me, not exact reflection I had any conclusion, but something to think through. Yeah, on migration also, you know, like how the movement is shaping the whole world, and how it will evolve something to think about. Even there is a global crisis, whether it's the Middle East or, you know, economic or different crisis posed by the climate since. So yeah, it has given me an opportunity to think through and reflect. And also looking from more macro, perspective, more, you know, from the global side. So these are some immediate reflection, but I'm hoping that there will be something more concrete that I would be able to share with you. Okay, well, we'll keep talking. And sorry, one more question. There will be other people following you out of Nepal, going to work for a big organization, not necessarily the UN, but something like that. After your eight months, what advice would you give people who are doing a similar sort of thing as you? I think, yeah, first, if there is a aspiration, if someone aspires to work internationally as a professional, it requires some preparation mentally, perhaps more than other thing. And also looking into the skill sets, what the skill sets might be used. And also in which culture context that the job will require. And most important is embracing the diversity, ready to be work in other culture context. So definitely if you have a passion to work abroad internationally, of course, you will bring that ingredient. If you aspire, even you don't have a passion, but you have to make a passion working internationally, embracing global values, diversity, and being open minded in terms of learning and understanding other culture. So this kind of attitude will help one to definitely speed up. I know I said that. Yeah, please, please. Do you feel like you were prepared when you went in all those ways? Yeah, I was putting effort. So it was not like, you know, bang, I was applying. And I was reading, I was preparing myself. It was like a quite long thinking and working, but I had made, good effort. Okay. Well, I think that goes back to what I was saying about you before how patient you are and how you plan things ahead. So it sounds like in this case, it was very beneficial that you have that personal trait, I think. Yeah, I think so. I haven't actually reflected. Perhaps, yeah, I can get more inspiration from this chat to reflect more on my journey. How I came this point. Okay. I'm very happy if you're getting inspired by her chat today. So thank you again for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time. In your limited time that you have here back in Kathmandu. And hopefully we get to chat again one day. Thank you, Marty, and having me again. And I really appreciate you taking time and giving me an opportunity. Thanks again to Prem, Awasthi for chatting with me today. I'm happy to say that in more than four years, he's our first return guest on the show. Let us know what you thought. You can text Nepal now by clicking on the link at the top of the notes to this or any episode. You can also email me at nepalnowpod@gmail.com. Or leave a comment on any of our social channels. We're at @nepalnowpod.[BLANK_AUDIO]